Comments on: continued notes on the macbook experiment, week 3 http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/ Ramblings on software, law, and the spaces in between. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:08:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Hacker News | Linux on the desktop 2010, your honest thoughts? http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-2/#comment-30040 Hacker News | Linux on the desktop 2010, your honest thoughts? Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:44:55 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-30040 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] [...]

]]> By: Mac Laptop News » Blog Archive » News: “Luis Villa: continued notes on the macbook experiment, week 3″ http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-2/#comment-30009 Mac Laptop News » Blog Archive » News: “Luis Villa: continued notes on the macbook experiment, week 3″ Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:04:11 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-30009 [...] Luis Villa: continued notes on the macbook experiment, week 3 on Planet MozillaTopics: MacBook [...] [...] Luis Villa: continued notes on the macbook experiment, week 3 on Planet MozillaTopics: MacBook [...]

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]]> By: Jeff Walden http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-2/#comment-29989 Jeff Walden Sun, 03 Jan 2010 03:41:37 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29989 Can't agree more on the first point; it depresses me how much we advocate for a bazaar in open-source software development but adopt the cathedral when it comes to distributing it, due to well-intended but internecine arguments not fully focused on the good of all users. Can’t agree more on the first point; it depresses me how much we advocate for a bazaar in open-source software development but adopt the cathedral when it comes to distributing it, due to well-intended but internecine arguments not fully focused on the good of all users.

]]> By: Luis Villa http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-2/#comment-29988 Luis Villa Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:45:59 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29988 Applecations: I agree, but I also need to know/understand what the rest of the world is doing. Part of why desktop linux is so uncompetitive right now is because so many core desktop linux developers have not used a competitive OS since Win98, so we think that is still the target. Applecations: I agree, but I also need to know/understand what the rest of the world is doing. Part of why desktop linux is so uncompetitive right now is because so many core desktop linux developers have not used a competitive OS since Win98, so we think that is still the target.

]]> By: Applecations http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-2/#comment-29987 Applecations Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:40:18 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29987 I think Mark's still right about Apple: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/02/when-the-bough-breaks I think Mark’s still right about Apple:

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/02/when-the-bough-breaks

]]> By: Robert Kaiser http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-1/#comment-29980 Robert Kaiser Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:27:48 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29980 The good suspend/resume experience is part of controlling all hardware and only needing a smaller amount of drivers as well, by the way. Reduce the Linux kernel to 5% of its scurrently supported drivers, and hand-select which ones they are, and suspend/resume works just as well. The good suspend/resume experience is part of controlling all hardware and only needing a smaller amount of drivers as well, by the way. Reduce the Linux kernel to 5% of its scurrently supported drivers, and hand-select which ones they are, and suspend/resume works just as well.

]]> By: Kevin Kofler http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-1/#comment-29971 Kevin Kofler Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:42:54 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29971 The current KDE 4 (4.3.4 at the time of this writing) is definitely of end-user quality. And no, I don't think non-Free X drivers are OK. But KWin can do desktop effects with only XRender, even software XRender (vesa driver). And Intel integrated graphics don't need non-Free drivers for OpenGL, either. Nor do AMD/ATI Radeons in Fedora 12 (see mesa-dri-drivers-experimental for the Radeon HD series). The current KDE 4 (4.3.4 at the time of this writing) is definitely of end-user quality. And no, I don’t think non-Free X drivers are OK. But KWin can do desktop effects with only XRender, even software XRender (vesa driver). And Intel integrated graphics don’t need non-Free drivers for OpenGL, either. Nor do AMD/ATI Radeons in Fedora 12 (see mesa-dri-drivers-experimental for the Radeon HD series).

]]> By: Luis Villa http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-1/#comment-29937 Luis Villa Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:41:54 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29937 wrt various comments that say (basically) either 'it is already available' or 'it is in KDE'... talk to me when it is production, end-user quality. (Hint: if you think KDE or the gnome dashboard/applet technology is of end-user quality we have nothing further to say to each other.) Yes, expose is there, but I've never had hardware that can reliably run it. (Another hint: if you think using non-free X drivers is acceptable, then just go ahead and buy a Mac already.) On the one hand, this is possibly the most commented post I've ever written, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I've had more 'completely not getting it' comments on this post than I've gotten in the past several years combined. So maybe I'll just close comments on the rest of the posts in this series. wrt various comments that say (basically) either ‘it is already available’ or ‘it is in KDE’… talk to me when it is production, end-user quality. (Hint: if you think KDE or the gnome dashboard/applet technology is of end-user quality we have nothing further to say to each other.) Yes, expose is there, but I’ve never had hardware that can reliably run it. (Another hint: if you think using non-free X drivers is acceptable, then just go ahead and buy a Mac already.)

On the one hand, this is possibly the most commented post I’ve ever written, but on the other hand, I’m pretty sure that I’ve had more ‘completely not getting it’ comments on this post than I’ve gotten in the past several years combined. So maybe I’ll just close comments on the rest of the posts in this series.

]]> By: Luis Villa http://tieguy.org/blog/2009/12/23/continued-notes-on-the-macbook-experiment-week-3/comment-page-1/#comment-29935 Luis Villa Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:33:19 +0000 http://tieguy.org/?p=1745#comment-29935 James, Daniels: for me the primary issue was awesomebar being (apparently?) syncronous, and having lousy performance with large histories. It seems much, much better in the 3.6 nightlies, though. edgardo: if GNOME community members are not interested in how other OSes do things, we're even more fucked than I think we are. mairin: (1) I'm sorry you didn't get feedback on this earlier. If you'd like, I'd be happy to talk with you in some detail about the design feedback problem in our community and why I think something like this gets much more feedback than it should. (2) from a substantive perspective, the problem with the dialog is that there is no possible way an end user could make good use of any information that could possibly exist in that dialog. If it has to be shown to end users, it should follow the style of mac/windows crash dialogs, and just say 'we've encountered a problem and are uploading information about it, sorry for the interruption.' If it isn't intended to be shown to end users, then implementation criteria #0 should be 'make sure it never gets shown to end users.' That's not a feature you can tack on at the end; that absolutely must be baked in from the beginning. I'm really not sure where in the process that went wrong, but it is something QA should also have caught before it was released- that no one in the Fedora QA community stood up before release and said 'wha?' is (in my mind) at least as troubling as the design. (3) I apologize for the joke about flogging; I'm not a big fan of the absolute dictatorship school of organization, and that should have been more clear. But sometimes it is nice when the train runs on time. James, Daniels: for me the primary issue was awesomebar being (apparently?) syncronous, and having lousy performance with large histories. It seems much, much better in the 3.6 nightlies, though.

edgardo: if GNOME community members are not interested in how other OSes do things, we’re even more fucked than I think we are.

mairin: (1) I’m sorry you didn’t get feedback on this earlier. If you’d like, I’d be happy to talk with you in some detail about the design feedback problem in our community and why I think something like this gets much more feedback than it should.

(2) from a substantive perspective, the problem with the dialog is that there is no possible way an end user could make good use of any information that could possibly exist in that dialog. If it has to be shown to end users, it should follow the style of mac/windows crash dialogs, and just say ‘we’ve encountered a problem and are uploading information about it, sorry for the interruption.’ If it isn’t intended to be shown to end users, then implementation criteria #0 should be ‘make sure it never gets shown to end users.’ That’s not a feature you can tack on at the end; that absolutely must be baked in from the beginning. I’m really not sure where in the process that went wrong, but it is something QA should also have caught before it was released- that no one in the Fedora QA community stood up before release and said ‘wha?’ is (in my mind) at least as troubling as the design.

(3) I apologize for the joke about flogging; I’m not a big fan of the absolute dictatorship school of organization, and that should have been more clear. But sometimes it is nice when the train runs on time.

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