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	<title>Comments on: brief &#8220;CC-licensed specification&#8221; rant</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/</link>
	<description>Ramblings on law school in New York, free software, and the spaces in between.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26837</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26837</guid>
		<description>Chris: sigh. The OSP situation frustrates me- you guys seem to be making a very honest effort there, and getting very little credit for it.

Honestly, my critique here is probably just legal nitpicking- I wouldn't worry about it too much, since so many others do it too- your intent is made clear.

Now, I'll get back to nagging people about doing something better...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: sigh. The OSP situation frustrates me- you guys seem to be making a very honest effort there, and getting very little credit for it.</p>
<p>Honestly, my critique here is probably just legal nitpicking- I wouldn&#8217;t worry about it too much, since so many others do it too- your intent is made clear.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;ll get back to nagging people about doing something better&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: What good is a CC licensed specification? - Creative Commons</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26761</link>
		<dc:creator>What good is a CC licensed specification? - Creative Commons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26761</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] GNOME hacker and CC friend Luis Villa&#8217;s brief “CC-licensed specification” rant is correct: [I]mplementing a spec may require (among other things) licensing of “pending utility [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://tieguy.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] GNOME hacker and CC friend Luis Villa&#8217;s brief “CC-licensed specification” rant is correct: [I]mplementing a spec may require (among other things) licensing of “pending utility [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Wilson</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26744</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26744</guid>
		<description>No, you're totally right; I didn't take it personally, but this is cheating a bit.

On MSOSP - actually, the process would be fairly simple internally, I think.  I am worried about the lack of trust there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, you&#8217;re totally right; I didn&#8217;t take it personally, but this is cheating a bit.</p>
<p>On MSOSP - actually, the process would be fairly simple internally, I think.  I am worried about the lack of trust there.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26741</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26741</guid>
		<description>Chris: 

first, not at all taken as snide- it's a real, serious, hard question.

second, I apologize- I had intended to make it more clear that I don't blame you; for a long time CC has looked the other way when people have done this. So to the extent there is any blame here, I place it on CC; you tried to do the right thing and they failed you by not correcting the example others set for you.

third: Honestly, I think for you the best solution may be the MS Open Specification Promise- it is comprehensive and straightforward. Not everyone trusts it yet (as the link above mentioned), but there are no better standardized alternatives, and on the plus side, if it is 'fixed', your team gets those fixes for free. 

That said, I have no idea how hard that process is to use inside Microsoft, and I hope that CC/OSI/others can step up to provide a good alternative for lightweight situations like yours- I'm beginning to poke around, because I think this situation highlights that it is a very real need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris: </p>
<p>first, not at all taken as snide- it&#8217;s a real, serious, hard question.</p>
<p>second, I apologize- I had intended to make it more clear that I don&#8217;t blame you; for a long time CC has looked the other way when people have done this. So to the extent there is any blame here, I place it on CC; you tried to do the right thing and they failed you by not correcting the example others set for you.</p>
<p>third: Honestly, I think for you the best solution may be the MS Open Specification Promise- it is comprehensive and straightforward. Not everyone trusts it yet (as the link above mentioned), but there are no better standardized alternatives, and on the plus side, if it is &#8216;fixed&#8217;, your team gets those fixes for free. </p>
<p>That said, I have no idea how hard that process is to use inside Microsoft, and I hope that CC/OSI/others can step up to provide a good alternative for lightweight situations like yours- I&#8217;m beginning to poke around, because I think this situation highlights that it is a very real need.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Wilson</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26739</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26739</guid>
		<description>(That's not meant to be snide; I'm seriously asking.  After researching problem, doing design, getting buyoff up the management chain to "give it away for free," how do we make that "make it free" as quick and easy as possible?  It's intended to be a discussion question, not a defense.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(That&#8217;s not meant to be snide; I&#8217;m seriously asking.  After researching problem, doing design, getting buyoff up the management chain to &#8220;give it away for free,&#8221; how do we make that &#8220;make it free&#8221; as quick and easy as possible?  It&#8217;s intended to be a discussion question, not a defense.)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Wilson</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26738</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26738</guid>
		<description>Yeah, so as an offending speaker from Microsoft:

What should we do here?  I agree with you on the problem statement (that CC is a copyright, not an IP licensing statement).  Let's all presume for a moment that our intent is to cause the end result that we've stated:  for example, that we want the OpenServices Format to be free for anyone to implement, and to achieve that end we'd like to state that the spec is placed in the public domain and we would RF-license any IP we own that might be infringed upon by an implementation of said spec.  How should we best make that happen, where "best" includes both legal and perception concerns?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, so as an offending speaker from Microsoft:</p>
<p>What should we do here?  I agree with you on the problem statement (that CC is a copyright, not an IP licensing statement).  Let&#8217;s all presume for a moment that our intent is to cause the end result that we&#8217;ve stated:  for example, that we want the OpenServices Format to be free for anyone to implement, and to achieve that end we&#8217;d like to state that the spec is placed in the public domain and we would RF-license any IP we own that might be infringed upon by an implementation of said spec.  How should we best make that happen, where &#8220;best&#8221; includes both legal and perception concerns?</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26731</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26731</guid>
		<description>Duh :) That's true of any specification and any set of patents; the MS license I quoted from there doesn't say 'there are no patents'; it says 'we will not assert any patents we have.' Ditto trademarks, etc., etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duh :) That&#8217;s true of any specification and any set of patents; the MS license I quoted from there doesn&#8217;t say &#8216;there are no patents&#8217;; it says &#8216;we will not assert any patents we have.&#8217; Ditto trademarks, etc., etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Buck</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26730</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Buck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26730</guid>
		<description>But an author of a specification can't know whether someone &lt;i&gt;else&lt;/i&gt; might claim a patent that has to be infringed by any implementation, and isn't likely to be eager to promise otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But an author of a specification can&#8217;t know whether someone <i>else</i> might claim a patent that has to be infringed by any implementation, and isn&#8217;t likely to be eager to promise otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Code walking </title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26743</link>
		<dc:creator>Code walking </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26743</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Luis Villa posted&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a class="technorati-balloon" href="http://www.technorati.com/cosmos/search.html?url="><img src="http://static.technorati.com/images/bubble_h17.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="links from Technorati" style="border:0;" /></a>Luis Villa posted</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Links</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26858</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2008/03/27/brief-cc-licensed-specification-rant/#comment-26858</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a class="technorati-balloon" href="http://www.technorati.com/cosmos/search.html?url="><img src="http://static.technorati.com/images/bubble_h17.gif" class="technorati-balloon" alt="links from Technorati" style="border:0;" /></a></p>
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