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	<title>Comments on: quick notes on Freedom and &#8220;Michael Hardt presents Thomas Jefferson&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/</link>
	<description>Ramblings on law school in New York, free software, and the spaces in between.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Luis Villa&#8217;s Blog / quick notes on Freedom and &#8220;Michael Hardt presents Thomas Jefferson&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24953</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Villa&#8217;s Blog / quick notes on Freedom and &#8220;Michael Hardt presents Thomas Jefferson&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] and boring people, I&#8217;ll just go finish Wealth of Networks instead ;)   Post a comment &#8212; Trackback URI RSS 2.0 feed for these comments This entry (permalink) was posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007, at 6:06 [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://tieguy.org/blog/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] and boring people, I&#8217;ll just go finish Wealth of Networks instead ;)   Post a comment &mdash; Trackback URI RSS 2.0 feed for these comments This entry (permalink) was posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007, at 6:06 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: aguafuertes</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24568</link>
		<dc:creator>aguafuertes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24568</guid>
		<description>Thanks for voicing a sentiment that is certainly well-known to each free software enthusiast/developer/user: the doubt whether the "right" thing can be successful, especially when being confronted with some class A closed-source software/product.

Nice comment/summary from Tim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for voicing a sentiment that is certainly well-known to each free software enthusiast/developer/user: the doubt whether the &#8220;right&#8221; thing can be successful, especially when being confronted with some class A closed-source software/product.</p>
<p>Nice comment/summary from Tim.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24567</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24567</guid>
		<description>It seems to me there's a pretty important means/ends distinction that's worth minding here. The "ought" statement that "all else being equal, free software is better than non-free software" is self-evidently true. The freedom to examine, modify, and re-distribute software are good in and of themselves, because they allow people to do things they otherwise wouldn't be able to do with their software.

On the other hand, the statement "peer production is the most effective way to produce software" is not obviously true. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that with existing economic conditions and methods for organizing peer production, it is false for at least some categories of software. More to the point, there's no logical connection between these statements. One can perfectly well believe the former while rejecting (or at least being skeptical of) the latter.

The iPhone example simply proves the latter point. So far, top-down, commercial development processes are the best way to produce phone software. But there's no reason the iPhone should shake your "confidence in freedom." The iPhone would be an &lt;i&gt;even better product&lt;/i&gt; if the software were released under the GPL. I just happens not to be in Apple's interest to do so.

There's an obvious parallel to Jefferson's work. The end is liberty. The means include revolutions, checks and balances, democracy, federalism, etc. The fact that one of the means proves not to work (violent revolution in France, the Articles of Confederation) doesn't in any way discredit the value of the end. It just meant they had to be more determined and clever in how they pursued it.

By the same token, there is more than one route to free software. Samba, for example, cloned an existing proprietary protocol rather than starting a new one. The Mozilla project persuaded Netscape to subsidize its efforts in a way that probably wasn't in Netscape's interests but was very much in the interests of the free software community. The fact that the free software movement hasn't yet found a similar method for conquering the cell phone market doesn't demonstrate that there's anything wrong with freedom. It just demonstrates that freedom is sometimes hard to achieve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me there&#8217;s a pretty important means/ends distinction that&#8217;s worth minding here. The &#8220;ought&#8221; statement that &#8220;all else being equal, free software is better than non-free software&#8221; is self-evidently true. The freedom to examine, modify, and re-distribute software are good in and of themselves, because they allow people to do things they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t be able to do with their software.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the statement &#8220;peer production is the most effective way to produce software&#8221; is not obviously true. In fact, I&#8217;m reasonably certain that with existing economic conditions and methods for organizing peer production, it is false for at least some categories of software. More to the point, there&#8217;s no logical connection between these statements. One can perfectly well believe the former while rejecting (or at least being skeptical of) the latter.</p>
<p>The iPhone example simply proves the latter point. So far, top-down, commercial development processes are the best way to produce phone software. But there&#8217;s no reason the iPhone should shake your &#8220;confidence in freedom.&#8221; The iPhone would be an <i>even better product</i> if the software were released under the GPL. I just happens not to be in Apple&#8217;s interest to do so.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an obvious parallel to Jefferson&#8217;s work. The end is liberty. The means include revolutions, checks and balances, democracy, federalism, etc. The fact that one of the means proves not to work (violent revolution in France, the Articles of Confederation) doesn&#8217;t in any way discredit the value of the end. It just meant they had to be more determined and clever in how they pursued it.</p>
<p>By the same token, there is more than one route to free software. Samba, for example, cloned an existing proprietary protocol rather than starting a new one. The Mozilla project persuaded Netscape to subsidize its efforts in a way that probably wasn&#8217;t in Netscape&#8217;s interests but was very much in the interests of the free software community. The fact that the free software movement hasn&#8217;t yet found a similar method for conquering the cell phone market doesn&#8217;t demonstrate that there&#8217;s anything wrong with freedom. It just demonstrates that freedom is sometimes hard to achieve.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24565</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not bored here!  Thanks for voicing your thoughts in this area -- we really are part of a revolution here, but it is easy to let the FUD seep in.  Keep lighting your light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not bored here!  Thanks for voicing your thoughts in this area &#8212; we really are part of a revolution here, but it is easy to let the FUD seep in.  Keep lighting your light.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/07/22/quick-notes-on-freedom-and-michael-hardt-presents-thomas-jefferson/#comment-24770</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; quick notes on Freedom and “Michael Hardt presents Thomas Jefferson”  &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
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