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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;the great associate salary spike&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Dom Lachowicz</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/comment-page-1/#comment-9126</link>
		<dc:creator>Dom Lachowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/#comment-9126</guid>
		<description>He does mention other expenses, but his argument suffers for including school debt. Sure, an entry-level associate doesn&#039;t *need* to live downtown in a penthouse or hob-nob in top-line bars (though doing so may help their career ambitions and upward mobility. I&#039;ve lived next to a ritzy building with lots of entry level lawyers, and without fail they saw their address as an investment. It&#039;s all about who you know and appearances, after all.). 

But a lawyer without fail requires a law-school education. My impression is that top-notch firms that pay big bucks prefer to hire folks from elite law schools. And elite law schools have an expectation that their students will go to work at top-notch firms that pay out big, and therefore they can get away with charging their students more. It&#039;s a catch-22. The elite schools won&#039;t start charging less until fewer students want to attend them. And that will only happen when top-notch firms start passing over elite-school grads en-masse. The salary spike starts at the top, not with the students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He does mention other expenses, but his argument suffers for including school debt. Sure, an entry-level associate doesn&#8217;t *need* to live downtown in a penthouse or hob-nob in top-line bars (though doing so may help their career ambitions and upward mobility. I&#8217;ve lived next to a ritzy building with lots of entry level lawyers, and without fail they saw their address as an investment. It&#8217;s all about who you know and appearances, after all.). </p>
<p>But a lawyer without fail requires a law-school education. My impression is that top-notch firms that pay big bucks prefer to hire folks from elite law schools. And elite law schools have an expectation that their students will go to work at top-notch firms that pay out big, and therefore they can get away with charging their students more. It&#8217;s a catch-22. The elite schools won&#8217;t start charging less until fewer students want to attend them. And that will only happen when top-notch firms start passing over elite-school grads en-masse. The salary spike starts at the top, not with the students.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/comment-page-1/#comment-9124</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/#comment-9124</guid>
		<description>Yes and no; people take on that much debt from the elite schools in part because they know they can pay it off quickly if they are careful. The non-elite schools are less expensive. If the top firms were paying $70-$80K/year, the schools would have a lower cost- virtually no one in their right mind would take on another $150K in expenses after the $160K in college expenses in order to earn that kind of money.

He&#039;s also talking about a lot besides the education. The city-center rents and lifestyle have a lot to do with it too. Aside from buying a solid, appropriate work wardrobe, your expenses as a first-year associate don&#039;t have to be high. You could live out of the city and commute; you could drink at bars in the suburbs where drinks cost $5 instead of $15 or $25. Many associates don&#039;t choose these options, in large part because they know they get paid a shit-ton of money, and because the really aggressive ones know they can leave for other options- as he points out later in the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes and no; people take on that much debt from the elite schools in part because they know they can pay it off quickly if they are careful. The non-elite schools are less expensive. If the top firms were paying $70-$80K/year, the schools would have a lower cost- virtually no one in their right mind would take on another $150K in expenses after the $160K in college expenses in order to earn that kind of money.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s also talking about a lot besides the education. The city-center rents and lifestyle have a lot to do with it too. Aside from buying a solid, appropriate work wardrobe, your expenses as a first-year associate don&#8217;t have to be high. You could live out of the city and commute; you could drink at bars in the suburbs where drinks cost $5 instead of $15 or $25. Many associates don&#8217;t choose these options, in large part because they know they get paid a shit-ton of money, and because the really aggressive ones know they can leave for other options- as he points out later in the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Dom Lachowicz</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/comment-page-1/#comment-9109</link>
		<dc:creator>Dom Lachowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/#comment-9109</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nice try, but it bears only the remotest connection to the way labor markets actually function. If they functioned the way the cost-plus crowd hypothesizes, I could afford my own Gulfstream V, Provence villa, and 5-bedroom penthouse with Central Park views: After all, I just increased my &quot;costs,&quot; so the workings of the market would appropriately subsidize me on the wage side, right?&quot;

Things such as ever-increasing law school debt are a prerequisite for entering the law profession. They&#039;re not a &quot;gulfstream jet&quot; perk that you always fantasized about and just happened to incur. They&#039;re an up-front expense that must be incurred to enter a given profession and (more importantly) must be paid back. It makes sense that as *law-school* debt rises, the expected entry-level *lawyer* salary rises similarly to offset the increased debt incurred. Or else people will decide that the $100k investment (not &quot;cost&quot;) in themselves isn&#039;t worth it and become a garbageman instead, causing a relative scarcity of new lawyers. Which should drive up entry-level salaries even further. Free markets and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nice try, but it bears only the remotest connection to the way labor markets actually function. If they functioned the way the cost-plus crowd hypothesizes, I could afford my own Gulfstream V, Provence villa, and 5-bedroom penthouse with Central Park views: After all, I just increased my &#8220;costs,&#8221; so the workings of the market would appropriately subsidize me on the wage side, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>Things such as ever-increasing law school debt are a prerequisite for entering the law profession. They&#8217;re not a &#8220;gulfstream jet&#8221; perk that you always fantasized about and just happened to incur. They&#8217;re an up-front expense that must be incurred to enter a given profession and (more importantly) must be paid back. It makes sense that as *law-school* debt rises, the expected entry-level *lawyer* salary rises similarly to offset the increased debt incurred. Or else people will decide that the $100k investment (not &#8220;cost&#8221;) in themselves isn&#8217;t worth it and become a garbageman instead, causing a relative scarcity of new lawyers. Which should drive up entry-level salaries even further. Free markets and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/03/06/the-great-associate-salary-spike/comment-page-1/#comment-23696</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; ‘the great associate salary spike’  &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
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