Comments on: n800 notes http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/ Ramblings on software, law, and the spaces in between. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:26:41 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Alexander Bokovoy http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-7074 Alexander Bokovoy Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:42:13 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-7074 Murray, naturally nobody from Nokia could confirm anything related internal legal workings. Sore fact is that after 5+ years into the project (including R&D phase) they still refrain from Ogg Vorbis support. Note that I don't think it is specifically Ogg Vorbis which that causes problems here, for example, FBReader isn't included in N800 as well though its port is being managed by Mikhail Sobolev who is on Nokia side of Maemo development (and even in higher position than simple developer). I'm more leaning to think that it is more re-negotiations related than anything else. Legal review is time consuming. For example, legal review in our company before releasing or even contributing something to a new free software project (which was not supported as part of business before) takes several months, sometimes a year or so. And this is a company 5-6 times larger than Nokia but in more IT related industries. So product teams usually want to keep away from additional delays and stay within an agreed framework. Murray, naturally nobody from Nokia could confirm anything related internal legal workings. Sore fact is that after 5+ years into the project (including R&D phase) they still refrain from Ogg Vorbis support. Note that I don’t think it is specifically Ogg Vorbis which that causes problems here, for example, FBReader isn’t included in N800 as well though its port is being managed by Mikhail Sobolev who is on Nokia side of Maemo development (and even in higher position than simple developer).

I’m more leaning to think that it is more re-negotiations related than anything else. Legal review is time consuming. For example, legal review in our company before releasing or even contributing something to a new free software project (which was not supported as part of business before) takes several months, sometimes a year or so. And this is a company 5-6 times larger than Nokia but in more IT related industries. So product teams usually want to keep away from additional delays and stay within an agreed framework.

]]> By: Luis http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-7057 Luis Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:55:16 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-7057 Murray: thanks for the Canola link. As far as ogg patents go, <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1023-249710.html" rel="nofollow">Fraunhaufer has alleged that ogg likely violates their patents</a>, but never anything substantive. Murray: thanks for the Canola link. As far as ogg patents go, Fraunhaufer has alleged that ogg likely violates their patents, but never anything substantive.

]]> By: Murray Cumming http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-7056 Murray Cumming Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:52:07 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-7056 Alexander, that seems like complete guesswork. I don't have the reference, but I remember reading something from Nokia saying that it was a performance problem. I find it unlikely that it couldn't be fixed by now, of course. Has anyone ever claimed that Ogg Vorbis infringes someone's patent? Alexander, that seems like complete guesswork. I don’t have the reference, but I remember reading something from Nokia saying that it was a performance problem. I find it unlikely that it couldn’t be fixed by now, of course.

Has anyone ever claimed that Ogg Vorbis infringes someone’s patent?

]]> By: Alexander Bokovoy http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-7052 Alexander Bokovoy Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:59:47 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-7052 Luis, the legality topic was constantly discussed since first release of N770, in blogs and maemo-developers@. It looks like nokians were afraid to open even bigger can of worms with discussion of Ogg Vorbis et al. I can very well imagine all the burden they came through when tried to get this three years old R&D project (at the time) into production so that it would be released in 2005. Legalese clearance in a company like Nokia takes circles and months of communication back and forth, if not years. There was a sideway discussion in maemo-developers@ in 2005: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/900/focus=912 Considering high impact of any possible error from lawyers on company's image and actual business performance, it is understandable that they are cautious. Nokia does use Linux a lot in their projects but mostly on server side, coming to a desktop was a bit of new steps for them. I'm not at Nokia but in a company I'm currently with we have dealt of many such issues a lot and it is always headache to merge business and ethics of free software with lawyers' view on IT industry legalese. Luis, the legality topic was constantly discussed since first release of N770, in blogs and maemo-developers@. It looks like nokians were afraid to open even bigger can of worms with discussion of Ogg Vorbis et al. I can very well imagine all the burden they came through when tried to get this three years old R&D project (at the time) into production so that it would be released in 2005. Legalese clearance in a company like Nokia takes circles and months of communication back and forth, if not years. There was a sideway discussion in maemo-developers@ in 2005: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/900/focus=912

Considering high impact of any possible error from lawyers on company’s image and actual business performance, it is understandable that they are cautious. Nokia does use Linux a lot in their projects but mostly on server side, coming to a desktop was a bit of new steps for them.

I’m not at Nokia but in a company I’m currently with we have dealt of many such issues a lot and it is always headache to merge business and ethics of free software with lawyers’ view on IT industry legalese.

]]> By: Murray Cumming http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-7048 Murray Cumming Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:01:09 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-7048 Regarding Canola, check out the comment from Marcelo, who appears to be a Canola developer: http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2007/01/31/n800-internet-radio-player/ Regarding Canola, check out the comment from Marcelo, who appears to be a Canola developer:
http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2007/01/31/n800-internet-radio-player/

]]> By: Luis http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-6842 Luis Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:45:18 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-6842 Alexander: ah, I honestly hadn't considered that- our position at Novell was that ogg was not a legal problem, and that seems to be the position that all the major Linux vendors (some of whom have lawyers who ought to be just as paranoid as Nokia's) have taken. So it honestly hadn't crossed my mind that there might be legal considerations. Alexander: ah, I honestly hadn’t considered that- our position at Novell was that ogg was not a legal problem, and that seems to be the position that all the major Linux vendors (some of whom have lawyers who ought to be just as paranoid as Nokia’s) have taken. So it honestly hadn’t crossed my mind that there might be legal considerations.

]]> By: Alexander Bokovoy http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-6818 Alexander Bokovoy Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:37:37 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-6818 Luis, you're lawyer, you should know that Nokia lawyers are a bit scary with anything like Ogg Vorbis. :-) Luis, you’re lawyer, you should know that Nokia lawyers are a bit scary with anything like Ogg Vorbis. :-)

]]> By: Goran Rakić http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-6795 Goran Rakić Sat, 10 Feb 2007 01:18:41 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-6795 I think that Nokia770/800 is ideal for use as MythTV remote. I think that Nokia770/800 is ideal for use as MythTV remote.

]]> By: Luis http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-6791 Luis Sat, 10 Feb 2007 00:19:33 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-6791 Tentative plan for the 770 is to mount it on the refrigerator and export Krissa's recipes from gourmet to html. We'll see how that goes ;) Tentative plan for the 770 is to mount it on the refrigerator and export Krissa’s recipes from gourmet to html. We’ll see how that goes ;)

]]> By: nathan http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/comment-page-1/#comment-6788 nathan Sat, 10 Feb 2007 00:14:58 +0000 http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/02/09/n800-notes/#comment-6788 just in case you don't happen to have plans for your 770, there is a stack of papers on my desk that is just about to fly away without something to hold them down. just in case you don’t happen to have plans for your 770, there is a stack of papers on my desk that is just about to fly away without something to hold them down.

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